November 2, 2010
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Do you love the saints . . . ALL the saints? (reflections on church hurts)
What is your attitude toward the church?
Do you love the saints . . . ALL the saints?
Please consider those questions as you watch and listen to "The Bride" by Lecrae.Have you thrown the baby out with the bath water?Do you love the saints . . . ALL the saints?
Are you part of a local body of believers?
How are you showing you love the saints?Mark 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.Are we making people follow us rather than Christ?
Are we elevating nonessentials to the status of essentials?I John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
16 By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.I John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Does eternal life abide in us?
Does God's love abide in us?
Are we loving the brethren...all the brethren?
Philippians 1:27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel...Is our manner of life worthy of the Gospel of Christ?
Are we striving side by side for the Gospel...or are we striving against one another?Jude 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.Are we rejoicing in our common salvation?
Are we contending for the faith...or contending with one another?
Yes, yes, I know many of you have your excuses, you've been hurt by someone in the church.
I'm not discounting that at all. I'm not minimizing that at all.
I'm not excusing those who've hurt you. I'm not justifying those who've hurt you.But the truth is this:
we will be hurt and we will hurt one another in the Body of Christ.I've hurt other Christians and other Christians have hurt me.
This is part of the fallen world we live in.
We're saints, yes, but we're continuing to be sanctified.We all will sin.
Others will hurt us.
We will hurt others.Why else do you think Paul wrote these words such as these to the Church:
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.Why else do you think that Jesus prayed for us, for the Church, to be one, perfectly one?
John 17:20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.I think most of us would agree that besides our families, the Church is one of the most sanctifying places on earth.
Truth:
The devil wants us to be divided and scattered.
The devil delights in a divided church because a divided church is a weakened church and a church that has less impact in the world.
He wants to take us off our vision and mission, to make disciples of all nations for their joy and the glory of God (and our joy).Question:
If all the Christians who were hurt by other Christians left the church, who'd be left?
Another truth:
God is sovereign over each and every one of those hurts you've experienced at the hand of another Christian,
and He is working each and every one of those hurts
for His glory,
for your good,
to conform you into Christ's image and
for the furtherance of the Gospel.Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.Genesis 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.
Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
I've known church hurts, and I know there are times I've been sorely tempted to throw the baby out with the bath water, but God has given me grace not to.
Yes, there were times I didn't want to return.
Yes, there were times I didn't want to love.Impossible with me, but possible with Him.
I know without a doubt that each and every one of those hurts God has used for my purifying and sanctifying.
I don't understand how He does it, but every heartache, every sob, every tear has been worth it
because it has made Christ more and more precious to me.I only came to see the holiness of God and my total depravity because I was hurt by other church members.
Praise God!
I don't get that at all, but God was working each and every hurt for my good and His glory!
I came to see myself as a wretch!
It took over twenty years of my being a Christian to really begin to see His glory in saving sinners like me!
Up until that time I was much like the Pharisee in Luke 18, rather than the tax collector.
I implore you to ask God to fill you with His Holy Spirit, so you might
love others the way He loves you,
show mercy to others the way He shows mercy to you,
be gracious to others the way He shows grace to you,
forgive others the way He forgives you,
welcome others the way He has welcomed you,
embrace others the way He embraces you,
rejoice over others the way He rejoices over you,
bless others the way He blesses you.After all, the Holy Spirit's work in us is all about His transforming us into the image of Christ, isn't it?
Yes, I know, this is a hard thing. A very hard thing.
But will you not ask this hard thing for God's glory and watch Him work exceedingly above all you can ask or imagine?
Or if you cannot yet ask for it, will you not ask Him to help you to begin to want to ask for it?
(Philippians 2:12-14)Given so we might give!
Blessed so we might bless!
This is the Gospel way!Luke 6:38 ...give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you...Genesis 12:2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.
Matthew 10:8b You received without paying; give without pay.
I John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Related postsOn loving the church and unity in the church:
Lent IV.-"If you love Me you will love the church"
May the mind and word of Christ dwell in us so we might arise as one man
we are a wilderness and a desolation today (lack of love in the Church | Isaiah 64:10-11)
forgive us for dividing Your Son, our Lord
Behold, how good and pleasant it is when we dwell in unity!
How can we say we are unified when ... ?
What kind of pony are you asking for for Christmas?
Does oneness in Christ mean . . . ?
Instead of legalism . . . CHRIST!
Is Satan stirring the pot in your congregation? (and are you helping him?)
why deerlife? (we are separated on the wall, far from one another - Nehemiah 4)God's sovereignty over hurts:
Kingdom-Obsessed People don't keep looking in the rear view mirror at past hurts, # 5
The Often Unwanted but Necessary Gift: The Gift of the Broken Heart
All things (even bad things) work together for good...
God's sovereign grace & care in Genesis (the story of Joseph)
Whitefield's prayers: more reminders of God's sovereign grace & care
John Piper's sermon series Spectacular Sins and Their Global Purpose in the Glory of ChristSome of my story:
Naphtali News: To Everything There Is a Season, or
Bible Reading-Isaiah: When We Think the LORD Has Forsaken and Forgotten Us
Naphtali's Sunday Afternoon Lament: "Still Apart"
Kingdom-Obsessed People don't keep looking in the rear view mirror at past hurts, # 5
Postcards from God at Vail: The LORD alone shall be exalted in that day
How I've not been pressing on (friendship and fear)
Naphtali News: Needing Grace to Swim with the Lamb
receiving grace to swim with the Lamb
resting in the love of God & pressing on in friendships (letter 46 on assurance & joy)
reflections on going to the house of the Lord
please also see my posts tagged leaving church, church wandering and returning to churchPlease note the typo in the Lecrae lyrics near the end: "I ain't dissing parachurch"
Scripture quotations are taken from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. Copyright ©2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
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Comments (9)
You can count me among the numbers who have been hurt in church by other Christians. How many of those times was it due to a misunderstanding or the hurt unintended? Well that doesn't matter, we say, I didn't get an apology. How many times has what I've said caused another person hurt? Probably, so many that I don't want to know.
As Karen says here, we can learn and grow from all of those things. If our intention is not to forget or forgive, then we've certainly learned nothing yet. If we use the hurt we have known as a blanket indictment against the whole church, we are slandering the Head of the Church. Harboring grudges or continuing to lick our wounds for many years will stunt our growth in Christ.
We freely received grace from the Almighty Sovereign God with whom we have been an enemy. Why can we not give grace to our brethren who are not our enemies at all, but family. All who have been bought with the precious blood of Christ have equal standing with God...not equal rewards or equal growth. Some have allowed God to teach them by the things they have suffered....Have you?
Sorry, Karen, for "borrowing" your post. I was inspired by your hard-won lessons of grace.
Are we rejoicing in our common salvation?
Are we contending for the faith...or contending with one another?
Amen
@quest4god@revelife - Heh. Don't apologize for "borrowing." (I've done the same to you & others on several occasions.) There are so many things you've touched on here that could be expanded on.
Only as we come to see how precious our forgiveness is in Christ, how precious His cross and blood are, are we able to really begin to forgive others. That's a big part of what happened to me through some of that hurt. I was struggling to forgive someone and only then did it really began to hit me how sinful I was and how much more God has forgiven me compared to what I was asked to forgive. There I was - the unforgiving servant, but God gave me grace to forgive. Then He had me repeat that over and over. I began to see more and more how glorious grace was and how totally depraved I was. I knew the doctrine in my head, but it was through all that that God has begun to write His love on my heart, the breadth and length and height and depth of God's love for us in Christ.
Jesus told us that if we do not forgive others, then our Father in heaven will not forgive us. That is not a quid pro quo, but rather it is a statement that our ability to forgive is the proof of Christ's life dwelling in us. The Christian cannot continue in unforgiveness; it goes so against the character of God Himself. The other side of that is that we can trust God to judge rightly. Sins committed against us will either be punished in Christ on the cross or punished in the person who sinned for eternity in hell. We can trust Him in that, just as Jesus did (I Peter 2). It's hard to let go of our desire for justice and to trust God with that, but we will never have any real peace until we do so. The bitterness will continue to eat away at us.
@TravelingStranger - Amen.
(FYI: I actually wrote this in large part b/c of the posts you've been doing & your prayer requests, etc. As we continue to look at what divides us, then we can't really be praying for and supporting one another as we ought. I know we're not agreed on every single point of doctrine, but I know we are both seeking Christ's Gospel be preached and God's glory, and we are both contending for the faith. We all need prayer from one another, but yesterday afternoon it really hit me as to what a privilege it is to pray for you and your wife, esp. now that you're in a country hostile to the Gospel. And then I began to think of the blessings we miss out on when we don't have that love for one another and we don't lift each other up in prayer b/c we let minor things divide us. This post didn't quite end up w/ that emphasis, but that was the heart of where I was coming from.)
Jude 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
I loved your very timely post today. Norma and I have attended many churches in our lives due to all of our moves. I visited many churches wherever we lived just to see what they were doing--curious. I would say that we only found one really 'bad' church. My wife currently attends a 'disappointing' church. I thought she was going to stop going and find a Lady's Fellowship, but she went Sunday, and came home sad again. I was an Elder twice in her church. People often left complaining that they were unfriendly. My complaint was always the same--if 'we' the the church are going to be true Conservative Baptist Association members, then lets follow their guide lines for church growth--evangelism, Bible Study and memorization, visitation every week of visitors and members, send out 'miss you' cards when someone is not in Sunday School, support missionaries strongly, teach the Bible verse by verse, etc. They would do none of it other than what they did on Sunday.
I am talking about church protocol and you are talking about forgiving church members or leadership.
God will be the judge as to whether or not my wife should stay at the old church or membership and accept the disappointment. At least one church in Revelation 2 and 3 was told by Jesus to the faithful members--stay and be faithful yourself and that is all I will ask. Then there is one church that Jesus said He would vomit up.
I agree. We forgive. I just cannot allow my wife to become a church attending victim in the same way that a rape victim is put on the stand to explain her manner of dress before the rape.
Excellent post, Karen.
blessings
FRANK
@FRANK@revelife - Frank, I hear you on many of your concerns and share many of them. If there are things we see as lacking in the church, then we should be praying about those and obeying in what we should be doing. I know your case is restricted b/c you can't be involved in the same way as you once were/would like to be due to MIL & Auntie.
Many churches are not friendly and they do not go out of their way to welcome people or to build community. You can go and be anonymous in many churches, and that's not just big churches either. We need to have that community. That's Scriptural and it's something that's missing from the church today. (That said, I have to say I'm still not really immersed in the community of our current church, but am beginning to take more steps toward that.) I know you've mentioned on many occasions that you feel much more at home at Starbucks; I really do know how you feel about that and I think it's very sad.
I know it's hard to leave any church, really hard... You want to hang on, even if it's been dysfunctional, b/c if you've been there for any length of time, you've had at least some good reasons to be there, but there are definitely times to leave.
I'll be praying b/c you may need to take the lead in that for Norma. I think your desire to protect Norma is good and right. Yes, certainly church life isn't easy, but we can't stand by as we watch our loved ones being sucked dry as you said:
I just cannot allow my wife to become a
church attending victim in the same way that a rape victim is put on
the stand to explain her manner of dress before the rape.
The last couple churches we ended up leaving, my husband could see how I was being torn up about it and he took the lead in that as a protection for me. The last time he said something like, "I think we should leave, but I'm not going to rush you." I was really invested there and I was heartbroken over the idea of leaving b/c I really wanted to stay (I have tears coming to my eyes even now), but there were continuing struggles and I had come to see I was hitting my head against the wall and it wasn't God's place for me/us any more.
I asked some friends to pray about our decision to leave and within a short period of time, God softened my heart and made me ready to leave. No, it wasn't easy after that, but it was for the best. Not long after that, God began to show me the wisdom in our leaving. I had to entrust God to deal with things there (hard, very hard), and as time has gone by, I can see how He did.
I will be praying for you both, for real healing, for Christ's love and peace and joy to fill you both.
Karen
@naphtali_deer - Thanks for sharing, Karen.
I think I will be a little more forceful with her about her decision. She was very disappointed again this past Sunday. She has a hard time really, really quitting.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
blessings
FRANK
@FRANK@revelife - You're welcome. I know how agonizing church life can be. We need to press on to find a place that we can function rightly and not drop-out.
I would say to make clear how you feel, but don't push her too hard, but pray hard. You can trust God to lead her in His time. I was thankful for how gracious my husband was in the latter case. He knew it was best we left, but he trusted the Spirit to work and He did.
@FRANK@revelife - Frank, I just want to clarify re: our last church that I wasn't without sin or fault in what happened there.