June 25, 2009

Comments (19)

  • yeah, disturbing. i couldn't watch all of that either. (though part of it is my computer is slow).

  • I have never heard of a pastor praying for anyone's death before. The second video is not shocking as I have seen very animated styles of worship in my 20 moves in 40 years.

  • @YouTOme - I wanted to shout out: "No, no, no! This is not what Christianity is!"

  • @FRANK@revelife - Frank, FYI: the second video is showing the attempted exorcism of a homosexual demon from a 16 year old teen.

  • @naphtali_deer - 

    I listened to more of the Video. I went to a church in Livonia, Mich once who did do that. The pastor would open a big Bible and and place it over the person's head and start yelling for the demon to come out in Jesus name. I did not know what to make of it. I was skeptical. I did know the pastor well. He started that church by reaching youth that were drug, alcohol and sex addicts.He shared the gospel, then moved them into the church and taught them the Christian life. They would do witnessing in mall parking lots. The church was open 24/7 and you could go anytime.

    The pastor tried to win me over, but I could not buy some of their doctrines. I told him it would never work with me. He gave up.

    Blessings

    frank

  • @ANVRSADDAY - I do believe in demons and demon possession but this whole video didn't sit right w/ me. I've never witnessed anything like that firsthand. I think it is quite simplistic (and downright scary) to say that those who are homosexual must have demons in them, which seems to be what these people are teaching. I also find it quite regrettable that they call themselves "Manifested Glory Ministries," since I don't see any of God's glory manifested in what they're doing.

  • @naphtali_deer - i agree..i think it is simplistic and scary too.   have you ever heard of the westboro baptist church? (there's probably a youtube on them). apparently they protest funerals of servicemen and homosexuals. really horrible!

  • I witnessed an exorcism of a demon-possessed man.  He was a divinity student training for the priesthood.  Obviously, he was not saved or he could not have been possessed in that way.  The exorcism was not witnessed by the congregation and the result was that the young man was restored to his right mind only he admitted that he was not ready to receive Christ - much less the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  This kind of thing is hard to understand much less evaluate the authenticity of it, but I am not willing to deny it especially in light of what I saw there.

  • hoo boy.  I couldn't watch the whole 2nd video either ---- too disturbing.   As for the 1st video - that most certainly isn't what Christianity is all about.  However, what do you do with the imprecatory psalms then, that call for the destruction of those who are anti-Jesus Christ?

  • @quest4god@revelife - Norm, as I said in a previous comment, I've never witnessed an exorcism, but I think the thing that bothers me here is the underlying assumption that b/c this man is homosexual he must have demons. Yes, sin can be caused by demons, but it also stems from our own sin nature. I think we can begin to go down a very dangerous path when we say, "Because you struggle w/ homosexuality (or whatever sin), then you are demon possessed." All I know is that when I viewed it (as much of it as I could), it really, really grieved, distressed and disturbed me...I'd contemplated whether to post it or not but then decided to do so. I also question the wisdom of those who posted it publicly in the first place (they've since taken it down, but of course, it still remains available for people to view).

  • @nicolevw - Nicole, Yes, good question re: the imprecatory psalms for sure...All I know is when I initially heard about Colmes-Drake interview, all I kept thinking about was Stephen's prayer for those who were rejecting Christ and about to stone him...

    And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

    We should certainly want God's justice for those who oppose Him and oppose Christ, but as we do so we always have to keep in mind that we deserve that same justice except that God does not treat us as our sins deserve b/c we have trusted by grace through faith in Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. In His sovereign mercy God sent Jesus to drink the cup of His just wrath which we deserve. And we always have to keep in mind that God does not desire that any perish. So long as someone is here on the earth, however evil they might be, however opposed they might be to Christ, they are not beyond the strong and mighty arm of God to save them. God calls workers to His vineyard early in the day, or at the end of the day, but they all receive the same eternal life by His mercy.

    Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? Matt. 20:15.

    We need to pray that God would show mercy to the lost as He did to us. If that isn't our first prayer, then we really don't understand the grace and mercy of God and the vileness of our own sin as we should.

  • @naphtali_deer - 

    I have never seen any evidence of demon possession in my life---even in the churches I visited out of curiosity. I only know of one really conservative, legitimate missionary who had two incidents in his field of labor years ago. It is a long story, but one of his students was reading a book about Satan and something took over him. The missionary just put his hands of the student prayed for it to leave. It did. Nothing dramatic like in the video. Then some church member had it happen, but that one was harder to get rid of.

    blessings

    frank

  • I' afraid that whoever put up that video did it to show off their group's "spirituality."  I cannot imagine why else they would humiliate the man on a public forum.  (Fortunately, only those who were present  know who he was.)  The point you make is good...it is not necessary for someone to have a demon in order to commit sin.  Personally, I don't believe a saved person can be "possessed" of the devil - maybe "oppressed," that is, from the outside.  I've been in situations such as the one in the video - not quite that extreme - and, amazingly God sometimes does touch some people during a "service" like that.

    The time that I cited in my comment (may it never happen again while I'm there, please) the person in charge of the retreat knew exactly what to do. We adjourned to the basement (just the few he chose) and the exorcism was conducted as though Jesus Himself were doing it.  But - make no mistake - it is not a pretty sight!  Needless to say, the young man was tended to afterward and then he quietly went to his room and dressed to  leave.  I don't know whether or not he ever was saved, but he left the seminary.  It was really sad.

  • I'm more saddened than bothered, actually. These are just 2 more cases the secular media can trump up and use to make true Christians look worse than they are. (We were forewarned that such persecution would come, however.)

  • @quest4god@revelife - I' afraid that whoever put up that video did it to show off their group's "spirituality." I cannot imagine why else they would humiliate the man on a public forum.

    That's definitely one problem I have with the video.

    I agree w/ you that I don't believe a saved person can be "possessed" though definitely can be "oppressed." We are engaged in spiritual warfare after all.

  • @nicolevw - Nicole, I was thinking more about imprecatory psalms and though I quoted the last words Stephen said, I didn't quote from his previous words rightly accusing the Sanhedrin:

    You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit (v. 51).

    So there's Stephen's justified anger over their sin, but then we see how it's balanced w/ a plea for grace and mercy:

    Lord, do not hold this sin against them (v. 60). (Note he asks for mercy yet does rightly identify their behavior as sin.)

    Also read what Jesus did in Mark 3:15: And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart...

  • @WLCALUM - Yes, I definitely do agree the media is trumping it (always looking for ways to slam Christianity), but on the other hand Dr. Wiley did make those statements publicly, and the ministry did put the video up on their own website, so I do believe some of the criticism is justified.

  • In the cases you cite, I agree with you about the criticism being justified. Such mis-representations aren't what we're about.

  • @WLCALUM - Such mis-representations aren't what we're about. Yes, most definitely so! I totally agree w/ you on that! Thanks.

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naphtali_deer

About me...

Christian hedonist in training. Pressing on to know more and more of the joy of the LORD. Pleading with God to rend the heavens and revive and refresh my own soul, as well as His Church, to His praise, honor and glory.

Thank God. He can make men and women in middle life sing again with a joy that has been chastened by a memory of their past failures. ~ Alan Redpath

My other websites

tent of meeting: Prayer for reformation & revival

(See also Zechariah821. Zechariah821 is a mirror site of tent of meeting, found on WordPress)

deerlifetrumpet: Encouragement for those seeking reformation & revival in the Church

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